Legislature(2009 - 2010)SENATE FINANCE 532

02/17/2009 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE


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09:02:04 AM Start
09:02:10 AM Overview:
10:11:12 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Overview: TELECONFERENCED
Legislative Finance of FY10 Operating
Budget
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                     February 17, 2009                                                                                          
                         9:02 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:02:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman called the Senate  Finance Committee meeting                                                                   
to order at 9:02 a.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice-Chair                                                                                             
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Ellis                                                                                                                   
Senator Thomas                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
David Teal, Director, Legislative Finance Division.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^Overview:                                                                                                                      
     Legislative Finance of FY10 Operating Budget                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:02:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID   TEAL,   DIRECTOR,   LEGISLATIVE   FINANCE   DIVISION,                                                                   
explained  the role of  the Legislative  Finance Division  as                                                                   
analyzing  the budget  (LFD).  He noted  that LFD  is a  non-                                                                   
partisan agency. He reported that  LFD provides assistance to                                                                   
the  legislature   as  the   governor's  budget   request  is                                                                   
reshaped. The budget  request is received by  LFD on December                                                                   
  th                                                                                                                            
15   and  the following  month  is  dedicated  to  correcting                                                                   
details and  reproducing the  budget with  the help  of legal                                                                   
services. He noted that LFD produces  appropriation bills and                                                                   
a series of reports that begin with a statewide summary.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal addressed  four  slides from  the  overview of  the                                                                   
governor's   request.   Slide   1   described   the   "Fiscal                                                                   
Sensitivity"  chart  beginning  at approximately  $5  billion                                                                   
with  the sensitivity  referring  to  oil prices.  The  state                                                                   
breaks even at  $74 per barrel of oil. The state  possesses a                                                                   
surplus  if  the  price  of oil  is  above  $74  per  barrel.                                                                   
Currently,  the state  is in  the  red (fiscal  gap) for  the                                                                   
first time since FY05. The state  has $8 billion in reserves.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:06:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  described Slide 2,  the "Fiscal Sensitivity"  chart                                                                   
for  FY09, with  the  general fund  budget  at $7.12  billion                                                                   
instead of  $5 billion. The  FY09 budget  is a result  of the                                                                   
$1.2  billion  in  savings  and  the  $750  million  resource                                                                   
rebate.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman   asked  when   the  resource   rebate  was                                                                   
implemented in the FY09 budget  cycle. Mr. Teal answered that                                                                   
resource rebate  was implemented  in Special Session  and the                                                                   
FY09 budget process  was and is still in  progress. Typically                                                                   
the budget is  passed and then addressed with  a supplemental                                                                   
request.  Every year  has  two live  fiscal  years. When  the                                                                   
legislature completes every supplemental  bill then FY09 will                                                                   
end.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:09:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman suggested  that many  legislators view  the                                                                   
budget cycle ending when session  ends, with the supplemental                                                                   
budget  acting  as  a  measure   to  backfill  oversights  or                                                                   
changing economic scenarios. The  legislature works to have a                                                                   
relative amount of savings put  away in relation to spending.                                                                   
He maintained that it is difficult  for the finance committee                                                                   
to do  budgetary work  with a  supplemental appropriation  of                                                                   
$750 million in August.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman added  that with lower  than predicted  oil                                                                   
revenues  for  FY09,  the  $750   million  supplemental,  and                                                                   
appropriations  to the  Constitutional  Budget Reserve  (CBR)                                                                   
require a committee vote.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal illustrated  that  the break  even  point for  FY09                                                                   
requires  oil prices  of  $83 per  barrel,  yet the  forecast                                                                   
predicts an  average price  of $60  per barrel. He  expounded                                                                   
that FY09 shows a deficit of $1.8  billion. Revenue forecasts                                                                   
predict  a deficit  of closer  to $1.3  billion. He  admitted                                                                   
that the chart  (Slide 2) was not particularly  accurate, but                                                                   
it gives the viewer an idea of  how oil prices affect revenue                                                                   
and the ability  to balance the budget. Even if  the price of                                                                   
oil is  up toward  $70 per  barrel for  the remainder  of the                                                                   
year, the state faces a deficit.  The Governor included a CBR                                                                   
provision in the supplemental  bill, which means that drawing                                                                   
money from the CBR fills the gap.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:13:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal addressed the "Fiscal  Summary" (Slide 3). He stated                                                                   
that the  Office of Management  and Budget (OMB) and  LFD met                                                                   
during  the interim  to  develop a  format  that is  clearer,                                                                   
simpler,  and   more  informative.  Growth   was  interpreted                                                                   
differently between  LFD and OMB.  The changes to  the fiscal                                                                   
summary include  a division  of agency operations,  statewide                                                                   
operations, capital appropriations, and savings.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Stedman  asked   to   address   Line  23,   direct                                                                   
appropriations to  retirement accounts, on Slide  3. Mr. Teal                                                                   
answered that  direct appropriations to retirement  refers to                                                                   
the excess the state contributes  to the retirement fund. The                                                                   
state  contributes  necessary   funds  above  22  percent  of                                                                   
payroll. The  state contributes  the money directly  into the                                                                   
retirement account rather than  giving it to school districts                                                                   
and having  them contribute  the money.  He stated  that $450                                                                   
million dollars  was contributed  last year because  the rate                                                                   
was  34 percent  of payroll,  which is  a substantial  amount                                                                   
above the 22  percent stated in law. This year  the actuarial                                                                   
recommendations  stated  that  the  rate  could  drop  to  27                                                                   
percent  of payroll, but  the actuarial  evaluation  lags two                                                                   
years. Since that  time there were substantial  losses in the                                                                   
retirement  accounts. The  governor submitted  a request  for                                                                   
$450 million  which is approximately  $160 million  more than                                                                   
the  actuary's  require  meeting  their  calculated  rate  of                                                                   
required  contribution. He  opined that  the contribution  to                                                                   
retirement  could possibly  be  reduced by  $160 million  and                                                                   
still complies  with the  actuary's recommendations,  but the                                                                   
retirement  fund lost  approximately  $3  billion last  year,                                                                   
which will not show up in rates  for another two years. It is                                                                   
the  legislature's  discretion as  to  which  amount will  be                                                                   
chosen.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:18:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  clarified that line 23 is  comprised of two                                                                   
components, one  being the addition  above the 22  percent of                                                                   
payroll and the extra payment of $160 million.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked for an  explanation of Line 25 and the                                                                   
oil and  gas credits.  Mr. Teal  stated that  Line 25  was an                                                                   
estimate  for gas  and oil  investment  credits. He  revealed                                                                   
that the amount  was $400 million and began as  a $25 million                                                                   
estimate. The  administration requested increases  and bumped                                                                   
up  to   about  $200   million  by   March.  In  March,   the                                                                   
administration  requested  another  $200 million.  He  opined                                                                   
that the administration had a  difficult time determining how                                                                   
much money  was needed for  tax credits.  He did not  know if                                                                   
the difficulty  was due to drilling or  exploration activity.                                                                   
The  governor recently  lowered  the amount  of  oil and  gas                                                                   
credits to $200 million.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman asked  if funds  automatically  lapse if  a                                                                   
budget  is  approved and  the  expenditure  is not  made.  He                                                                   
suggested  that  there is  no  significance in  reducing  the                                                                   
budget from  $400 million to  $200 million because  the money                                                                   
remains with the general fund.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:21:20 AM                                                                                                                    
Mr.  Teal agreed  in the  case  of operating  budget and  the                                                                   
appropriations  to agencies; any  unspent money  simply falls                                                                   
back to  the general  fund. He  said that  the difference  in                                                                   
this case  is that  the appropriation is  not drawn  from the                                                                   
general  fund, but  instead  deposited into  an  oil and  gas                                                                   
credit  fund. The  unspent money  sits  in the  fund. If  the                                                                   
money is not refunded to oil companies  this year, it sits in                                                                   
the fund and is available for future credits.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked about the  oil and gas credit referred                                                                   
to on Slide 3 Line 25. He asked  about the 25 percent capital                                                                   
credit investment.  Mr. Teal agreed that two  different types                                                                   
of credit exist. The state is  not privy to information about                                                                   
the  amount of  tax credit  claimed by  the major  producers.                                                                   
These credits on Line 25 are the  transferable credits earned                                                                   
by  exploration   companies  and  others  who   are  not  yet                                                                   
producing.  The  exploration  companies  do not  have  a  tax                                                                   
liability and cannot net it out  against their tax liability.                                                                   
Therefore  the exploration  companies receive  a credit  that                                                                   
they  sell  to  an  entity  without   a  tax  liability.  The                                                                   
legislature  requires   an  appropriation  for   the  smaller                                                                   
credits.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman stated  that the  committee struggled  with                                                                   
this issue  for some time.  The revenue number  discloses the                                                                   
value of  the resource and how  the amount of  capital credit                                                                   
flows.  He explained  that  the process  remains  challenging                                                                   
without  an   evident  gross   number.  The  Senate   Finance                                                                   
Committee  (SFC) asked  the Department  of  Revenue (DOR)  to                                                                   
organize the data for the public's benefit.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:25:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  requested that Mr. Teal review  the capital                                                                   
appropriations before the meeting's end.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal referred the graph on  Slide 4, "General Fund Budget                                                                   
History." He explained  that state savings from  FY06-FY09 is                                                                   
greater than  usual. The savings  accrued in early  1980s was                                                                   
placed in  the permanent fund.  He informed that  the state's                                                                   
savings are negative for the first time in FY10.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman  noted changes  in  tax structure  and  tax                                                                   
progressivity causing the spikes  in revenue observed in FY09                                                                   
and FY10.  Mr. Teal  agreed that the  progressive tax  made a                                                                   
considerable  difference  in revenue.  Tax  progressivity  is                                                                   
seen  above $60  per barrel  of  oil. He  suggested that  DOR                                                                   
provide details. He explained  that in some years the capital                                                                   
budget  nearly vanishes  on the  graph  as it  is merely  the                                                                   
minimum amount to get a federal  match. As revenue spikes the                                                                   
capital  budget grows.  The state-wide  expenditures are  not                                                                   
directly related  to agency operations including  retirement,                                                                   
oil and gas credits, debt service  and other capitalizations.                                                                   
During  the early  oil spike,  a  couple of  loan funds  were                                                                   
capitalized on.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins asked  about the increase  in the  statewide                                                                   
operations budget graphed in light blue.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:30:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  acknowledged  the tremendous  and sudden growth  in                                                                   
the statewide operation budget.  He explained that retirement                                                                   
morphed from  a fully funded  program to $5 billion  unfunded                                                                   
liability in one year, which required  substantial changes to                                                                   
retirement  systems.  He elaborated  that  the  state is  now                                                                   
paying $450 million  per year into retirement  costs where it                                                                   
used to  pay nothing. Oil and  gas credits were zero  and are                                                                   
now $400  million  per year. The  resource  rebate was  a one                                                                   
time  $750 million  expense. The  issue  with the  retirement                                                                   
cost had  nothing to do with  oil revenue, but  resulted from                                                                   
the stock  market downturn and  increased health  care costs.                                                                   
If oil had not  spiked in price when it did,  the state would                                                                   
still  face  the  $400 million  cost  of  retirement  systems                                                                   
without  funds  to  cover  it.  The  state  faced  a  serious                                                                   
challenge buried by the high prices of oil.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  asked where  in the  graph the prefunding  for                                                                   
education was  illustrated. Mr. Teal answered  yellow because                                                                   
it was considered savings. He  detailed that the color yellow                                                                   
represents  savings  of  approximately  $1 billion  into  the                                                                   
public education fund, $300 million  into the (Alaska Housing                                                                   
Finance  Corporation (AHFC),  $1 billion  into the  Statutory                                                                   
Budget   Reserve   (SBR),   and   $5.8   billion   into   the                                                                   
Constitutional Budget Reserve (CBR).                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman readdressed the  light and dark blue portion                                                                   
of  the  graph and  asked  if  minus  the one  time  resource                                                                   
rebate,  the remaining  expenses  were ongoing.  He asked  if                                                                   
every portion was a financial state obligation.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  answered that a  reduction to the operating  budget                                                                   
was possible but  the dark blue line representing  the agency                                                                   
operating  budget   grew  rapidly   with  revenue   and  then                                                                   
flattened out  as opposed to  the savings and  capital budget                                                                   
which declined. If  revenue is flat, then the  expectation is                                                                   
that  the operating  budget will  flatten as  well. Once  the                                                                   
operating budget grows it tends  to stabilize at the peak and                                                                   
then grow again  with the return of revenue. He  did not know                                                                   
how much  the operating  budget could be  cut. The  growth is                                                                   
between  10 and  14 percent.  In  2010, growth  drops to  2.7                                                                   
percent.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:35:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal addressed Line 11 on  the spreadsheet. The operating                                                                   
budget for  education has increased  by $92 million  in 2010.                                                                   
Of that $92 million increase,  $85 million was predetermined.                                                                   
Legislation  was passed  last year  that increased  education                                                                   
cost by $51  million. Salary increases were  also approved of                                                                   
about $31  million. One bill  reduced business  license taxes                                                                   
adding another $3  million. He cautioned that  there was more                                                                   
than $7 million  worth of growth in the operating  budget. He                                                                   
mentioned two  large FY09 expenses including  $23 million for                                                                   
Power   Cost   Equalization   (PCE)   and   a   $44   million                                                                   
appropriation to  agencies paying  for high fuel  costs. Both                                                                   
of these expenditures could back out of the FY10 budget.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal discussed  statewide operations  in line  20 and  a                                                                   
reduction of $840  million. He informed that  $750 million of                                                                   
the reduction  included the resource rebate and  another $100                                                                   
million was the  oil credit. The capital budget  for FY09 was                                                                   
$670 million,  which dropped to $535 million.  The Governor's                                                                   
budget  is typically a  starting point  with the  legislature                                                                   
adding capital projects.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:38:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman asked  for a comparison  of the  Governor's                                                                   
FY09 and FY10 requests for capital budget appropriations.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal stated  that Governor's  capital  budget last  year                                                                   
equaled  the minimum required  to obtain  federal match.  She                                                                   
had  a small  budget  in  her  original request,  which  grew                                                                   
substantially  during  the  legislative   process  both  with                                                                   
governor  amendments   and  legislative  add  ons.   At  $535                                                                   
million, the  capital budget  is substantial considering  the                                                                   
fiscal situation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman asked if the  stimulus package, which equals                                                                   
approximately  $1  billion  of  which  the  vast  portion  is                                                                   
capital.  Mr. Teal expressed  uncertainty  as to whether  the                                                                   
stimulus  package includes  federal funds  on top of  general                                                                   
fund expenditures. He stated that  it remains unknown whether                                                                   
the  stimulus  package  will  result  in  reductions  to  the                                                                   
general funds  budget. He  informed that major  contributions                                                                   
to education  are coming  through the  stimulus package.  The                                                                   
state  formula  says  that  state aid  is  basic  need  minus                                                                   
federal funds.  The stimulus  education package could  simply                                                                   
replace general fund dollars.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  countered that the funds identified  in the                                                                   
Governor's FY10 budget of $1.1  million of federal funds lack                                                                   
funds from the stimulus package.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:41:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  agreed with  Co-Chair Hoffman.  The FY10  budget is                                                                   
                                                           th                                                                   
the Governor's proposed budget  as requested on December 15,                                                                    
although substantial changes are  expected as a result of the                                                                   
stimulus package for both the  operating and capital budgets.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton asked if LFD was  working on rules for stimulus                                                                   
dollars and the substituting of  stimulus dollars for general                                                                   
fund dollars. Mr. Teal stated  that he read the stimulus bill                                                                   
recently and  it gave little  indication of what  will happen                                                                   
with  federal  dollars.  He  understood  that  the  money  is                                                                   
designed to supplement as opposed  to supplant general funds.                                                                   
The money cannot be referred to  as stimulus if it only helps                                                                   
states in need.  The LFD is working on the stimulus  bill but                                                                   
much work  is necessary. A large  number of projects  must be                                                                   
submitted   and  evaluated   quickly  due   to  severe   time                                                                   
constraints  on spending  the money.  Unless the  legislature                                                                   
has  some  way  of  quickly  analyzing  the  administration's                                                                   
proposals, the  projects will  not proceed  to a bill.  A new                                                                   
fund code  was created for the  stimulus package not  only to                                                                   
track the stimulus money, but  to ensure that legislature has                                                                   
some control  over the money.  He stated that  the Department                                                                   
of   Transportation   and   Public   Facilities   (DOT)   has                                                                   
substantial federal authorization  right now that allows them                                                                   
to approve projects  because they have  federal authorization                                                                   
to spend the money if it comes in.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:44:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal suggested that with the  new fund code, projects can                                                                   
not  proceed  with out  the  opinion  and evaluation  of  the                                                                   
legislature. Once projects are  evaluated by the legislature,                                                                   
a bill is drafted. He stressed  that a considerable amount of                                                                   
work exists prior to drafting the bill.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked  how the fund code is  created and who                                                                   
is in  control of  the creation  of the  fund code.  Mr. Teal                                                                   
answered  that LFD  creates  the federal  fund  code and  the                                                                   
legislature  can use  it  as they  use  any  other fund  code                                                                   
simply by specifying that the  code signifies the money spent                                                                   
in a  particular bill.  Normally federal  projects are  coded                                                                   
with revenue specifically  related to the stimulus  bill just                                                                   
passed. The stimulus  money is a completely  separate form of                                                                   
federal receipts  giving the  legislature complete  authority                                                                   
over which projects receive money.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:47:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman clarified  that  LFD is  the execution  arm                                                                   
that places the legislature in  the position of having review                                                                   
and authorization  authority over a particular  fund code, in                                                                   
this case the stimulus money.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal reminded  that  the legislature  has  the power  of                                                                   
appropriation.  The   function  of  the  legislature   is  to                                                                   
determine  the  amount  and type  of  funds  spent.  Co-Chair                                                                   
Stedman agreed with Mr. Teal.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal addressed savings, which  equaled approximately $1.2                                                                   
billion last year. This year the  Governor pulls $238 million                                                                   
from savings. The proposal is  to spend money from the Alaska                                                                   
Housing Finance  Corporation (AHFC)  savings account  and the                                                                   
legislature,  again   determines  whether  the   governor  is                                                                   
allowed  to proceed.  The  legislature  can change  the  fund                                                                   
code, delete  the projects, and  either way LFD  observes the                                                                   
budget differently  than OMB  does. He  stated that  OMB says                                                                   
that the  $238 million  does not appear  in the general  fund                                                                   
column, it appears  as other expenditures and  remains in the                                                                   
"other  column." He continued  that LFD  interprets that  the                                                                   
AHFC money was placed temporarily  in the savings account. If                                                                   
the money  is spent,  it cannot  be deemed non-general  fund,                                                                   
but instead  must be pulled out  and placed into  the general                                                                   
fund. In  this case, the action  is withdrawing money  from a                                                                   
savings  account  and  adding  it to  the  general  fund.  He                                                                   
stressed that LFD disagrees with OMB on this point.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:50:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  states that  the $238  million out  of AHFC                                                                   
was set  aside for  an event  of revenue  shortfalls. If  the                                                                   
$238  million  was  removed from  general  funds  would  this                                                                   
budget show a deficit?                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  addressed line  46 and  the pre-savings surplus  of                                                                   
$147  million  dollars.  He  stated   that  LFD  counted  the                                                                   
projects proposed  by the Governor  from the AHFC  account as                                                                   
general   funds  showing   surplus  of   $147  million.   The                                                                   
Governor's fiscal summary shows  the surplus as $382 million,                                                                   
but LFD interprets  the surplus as $147 million.  If the $238                                                                   
million is taken from the savings  account the surplus can be                                                                   
seen as $382 million, but really  the surplus of current year                                                                   
money is $147 million. The 2010  forecast is for the price of                                                                   
oil at $74 dollars a barrel, but  the revised forecast is due                                                                   
tomorrow and  if it is  below 70 dollars  a barrel  the state                                                                   
has a deficit in 2010.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins  stated that  he had seen  oil priced  at $40                                                                   
dollars per  barrel that morning.  He recalled that  the AHFC                                                                   
savings had been set aside for gasline activities.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  answered that the money  was set aside  for gasline                                                                   
and other purposes.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Huggins  expressed confusion with the  gasline as the                                                                   
number  one priority,  why would  the  money be  appropriated                                                                   
elsewhere.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:53:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  stated that  if oil  is priced  at $40 per  barrel,                                                                   
then the  state will  show a  deficit of  $3 billion.  Fiscal                                                                   
summary  is positive  now, whether  you look  at pre or  post                                                                   
savings surplus,  but it is  likely to go negative  tomorrow.                                                                   
The  options are  to  increase revenue,  spend  less, or  use                                                                   
reserves.  He surmised  that using reserves  is the  simplest                                                                   
option,  but reserves  will not  last more  that 3 years.  He                                                                   
recalled that this  was not the first time  these predictions                                                                   
existed.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman asked  about  the budget  fund history.  He                                                                   
asked when  the state had  faced revenue shortfalls  of $2-$3                                                                   
billion dollars  in the past.  He asked when  the legislature                                                                   
should concentrate on a break even rate.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:56:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal  stated  that  the  legislature  may  achieve  some                                                                   
operating  reductions. One option  is to  spend less.  In the                                                                   
past,  the  legislature  found  it difficult  to  reduce  the                                                                   
operating  budget.   The  governor's  operating   budget  was                                                                   
restrained  with  2.7  percent  growth. He  opined  that  the                                                                   
legislature   will  have  a   difficult  time  removing   the                                                                   
increments allowed  because agencies probably  requested much                                                                   
more  than the  governor  passed on  to  the legislature.  He                                                                   
assured that  2.7 percent is  small, relative to  past years.                                                                   
Changes  in  tax  credits and  retirement  could  cause  rate                                                                   
decline.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal suggested  that the capital budget  could be reduced                                                                   
and  is probably  the  simplest reduction.  He  noted that  a                                                                   
reduction in the  capital budget may also prove  simple given                                                                   
the  stimulus  package.  He  asked   about  the  FY07  budget                                                                   
presented by the previous administration.  Mr. Teal responded                                                                   
that   agency  operations   have   increased   substantially.                                                                   
Statewide operations  have also increased substantially  as a                                                                   
result   of  pre-retirement   and   pre   oil  tax   credits.                                                                   
Expenditures have increased by $800 million since 2007.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:00:16 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins asked  if  the savings  was  going into  the                                                                   
principal of the permanent fund.  He requested review of this                                                                   
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal replied  that the Governor proposed  making deposits                                                                   
to the permanent  fund principal or to the  earnings reserve.                                                                   
The savings would  not be available if the  deposits had been                                                                   
made.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Huggins   expressed   appreciation.  He  asked   for                                                                   
clarification on loss of money  in the budget reserve or sub-                                                                   
account and he requested the impact on the reserve account.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal responded that the statutory  budget reserve account                                                                   
neither gains  nor loses because  it is a sub-account  of the                                                                   
general fund.  The interest  accrues in  the general  fund as                                                                   
opposed  to the  reserve  account.  The sub-account  has  not                                                                   
declined  with  any losses;  the  general  fund has  in  fact                                                                   
absorbed the losses.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  elaborated that  the constitutional budget  reserve                                                                   
account  (CBR)  is  complicated  because  the  Department  of                                                                   
Revenue placed  approximately  $4 billion of  the CBR  into a                                                                   
sub-account which  then lost close  to 30 percent  or roughly                                                                   
$1 billion. The  state reserves declined by  approximately $1                                                                   
billion.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:04:15 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  stated that the committee  will address the                                                                   
CBR discussion tomorrow.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  informed that there  is approximately  $6.8 billion                                                                   
left in  the CBR instead  of the $7.8  billion that  might be                                                                   
expected.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  queried  the  effect  of  change  in  defined                                                                   
contribution benefits and the effect.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  answered that  a change  in defined benefits  would                                                                   
have very little  effect. The change from defined  benefit to                                                                   
defined contribution  is something  that takes years  current                                                                   
employees are not affected only new hires.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  recalled the interest  in a sweep  into the                                                                   
permanent fund, but  an interest in an endowment  created for                                                                   
DOT and some  other endowment work which would  contribute to                                                                   
the  loss  of  liquidity  if  the  proposal  was  implemented                                                                   
instead.  In retrospect,  he opined  that  the committee  did                                                                   
make the  right decision. He  proposed that the  calculations                                                                   
be run.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal explained  that the  third option  is to  increased                                                                   
revenue.  The  legislature  has never  been  successful  with                                                                   
personal or sales  tax. He cited a recent legislative  act to                                                                   
increase  petroleum  taxes, but  anything  done  in terms  of                                                                   
revenue  changes would  take a  few years  to implement.  The                                                                   
most effective  means  of increasing revenue  is to  increase                                                                   
oil prices,  but there is no  guarantee that it  will happen.                                                                   
The other  option is to spend  less. He suggested that  it is                                                                   
impossible for  the legislature  to spend less  and eliminate                                                                   
the deficit, which  leaves no choice but to  use reserves. He                                                                   
cautioned  that the legislature  must  monitor the rate  that                                                                   
reserves are spent and endeavor to minimize spending.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman recalled national  school districts that are                                                                   
transitioning  to  a  four-day school  week,  eliminating  20                                                                   
percent  of operating  costs for  education.  Mr. Teal  noted                                                                   
that some  states  have opted  for four day  weeks for  state                                                                   
workers.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:08:16 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  recognized that the legislature  can access                                                                   
the earnings reserve,  but he asked the amount  available for                                                                   
appropriations in the earnings  reserve. Mr. Teal thought the                                                                   
amounts  were  $3   billion  in  cash  and   $13  billion  in                                                                   
unrealized  losses.  The unrealized  losses  become  realized                                                                   
losses as soon  as soon as the legislature  sells to generate                                                                   
the money.  He suggested focusing  on cash as opposed  to the                                                                   
unrealized. The legislature may  be left with $1-2 billion of                                                                   
cash in the  earning reserve account. The account  depends on                                                                   
the market  which could  turn around  rapidly or continue  to                                                                   
sink.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  noted Line 61;  the legislature  will spend                                                                   
an estimated  $25 million  more in  the dividend program.  He                                                                   
interpreted  this as an  increase in  the amount of  budgeted                                                                   
money for PFDs.  Mr. Teal responded that the PFD  is an open-                                                                   
ended appropriation. The appropriation  follows the statutory                                                                   
formula, not the specific amount noted in Line 61.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:11:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton  recalled the  state  fiscal summary  and  the                                                                   
governor's  proposed  capital  of  $535  million  in  general                                                                   
funds.  He  asked what  percentage  of  the $535  million  is                                                                   
necessary  for   federal  match.  Mr.  Teal   estimated  $150                                                                   
million.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 10:11 AM.                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
LFD Overview Chart 1.pdf SFIN 2/17/2009 9:00:00 AM
LFD Overview Chart 2.pdf SFIN 2/17/2009 9:00:00 AM
LFD Overview Chart 3.pdf SFIN 2/17/2009 9:00:00 AM
LFD Overview Chart 4.pdf SFIN 2/17/2009 9:00:00 AM